Pella's customer service is as bad as it gets. I have purchased a total of four windows from your company and I am very disappointed and unsatisfied with not only the product you have provided but also the very poor service. I would like to know if there is any current class action lawsuit going on regarding these windows. When to Worry About Moisture on Windows We live only 35 minutes from Pella Iowa, so distance is not an issue. The San Francisco branch has a service and parts department located locally to provide faster service if and when needed. Pella nearly all once, but the water still continues to run in our house when it rains. We don't have that kind of $$$ to replace anything at this time. Is there any argon (or what ever type gas) between the insulated panes? I have Pellas throughout my house and to be honest I cannot complain about quality. Pella is a window company. Check out www.FTLtesting.com and you'll get an idea. If you want to deal with even a worse window and all time ripp-off company try dealing with Champion windows of Omaha. I was able to get Pella to give me many of the replacement sashes, no labor credit, prior to the expiration of the ten year warranty. A third door was ordered. 2 If you answered yes to 1 than get a humidity gauge for your home and keep it below 35% this is healthy living standard, and anything in excess of it will make it very difficult to get rid of int condensation. Because my window is out of warrenty by a whole 4 months it is not covered even though my first service call about this problem 2 years ago. The joints of the windows were exposed throughout last winter and are still exposed today. Consumers often cite problems with quality. We called back to say to just reverse the amount and credit Wells Fargo for the full amount and we would worry about getting our overpayment from them. Marko Vovk shows how they fail in four different ways. I have called Pella in Montreal several times since April to ask for the windows to be completed. Our trial is set for Marion County Court, Iowa on February 12, 2013. As we all know if Pella were providing quality customer service for their shifty product there would be no negative postings on the web. He said our house is seeled up to tight thats why we get moisture.That is not true, we even have a dehumidifier. I was told they no longer carry screens for these windows but a service tech could make adjustments to make it work. My between-the-glass blinds or shades are uneven or crooked. They will inspect the window and tell you whether they can simply replace the window panes or if you need a whole window replacement. The overall rating of the company is 1.7 and consumers are mostly dissatisfied. (Later Pella cancelled it.) This window is fixed and in a 20' peak. This is a fixed window and the sash is soft and rotten. ADMIN – Hi Cheryl, Duh !! The tech pronounced the glazing as ok, although he never got up on the tall ladder to check it. If you think Pellas are bad you had better run from Champion windows. It did not. To make matters worse, I ordered screens for the first batch of windows and made a point when ordering that I had the "old style" windows (they were only about a year old at that point). I took that day off from work and waited at my home. I was told the worker’s truck had a problem and could not make it to my house. I am expecting an official letter from your company which states when the work on my windows will be finally completed. DO NOT USE OILY LUBRICANTS! My daughter installed 3 of their windows in a breakfast nook. Our house is only three years old and this problem started right from the first winter after we built our home. 5.) We are looking for others like us that are interested in joining in a law suit against Pella. What is the problem with the Pella’s? It's going on 4 months and we're still waiting. Pella has designed their windows to seal as tightly as possible. So we can only conclude, Pella just simply does not stand behind their defective products. They were merely handymen trying to disguise themselves as expert installers. The varnish is popping off and the wood is starting to rot. Expert craftsmanship takes expert product knowledge. Pella windows won't last 10 years, let alone 160 years. First thing to look at. My windows were manufactured between 1991 and 2009. I hope others read this and know to stay away. These windows are circa 1982 vintage. I think Pella did make good doors and windows in the past, but like most company they now make junk and try to go on their past reputations. However 1 bay window in second floor had a round spot on the window sill/seat that bubbled ( i thought my daughter spilled perfume or something) Then after several years it seemed to grow larger. They came out to check it and I have 2 sets of window's that fog up that they are replacing but as for the door they said it's because I didn't clean the snow away from the door. I can not believe they failed in less than 2 years. I'm near suicidal about dumping the last of my money into what I thought would be a worthy improvment for my home. The second appointment to install my windows was on November 11th, 2011. The original windows are still in this house and they never have had problems like the Pella's. Pella Windows manufactures products in the United States, but national manufacturing standards don't seem to prevent problems or concerns with window parts becoming separated. I have Pella ProLine windows in my townhome. I agree that Pella windows are not the best quality and the service is not acceptable. After many calls and complaints, Pella sent another crew. Yes that would hide Pella Window’s bad design but create another problem for the window casing would be too far away from the clapboard.” Actually, far from being a problem, it is common and desirable to have a reveal between the window casing and the farthest point (bottom) of bevel “clapboard” siding courses. They had about 40 windows installed- high end alum clad Architect- and they ALL leaked. Pella windows suck The numerous problems we have had and continue to have with our Pella windows began before we even moved into our new home in August of 2006. We gave Pella the benefit of the doubt and nearly 2 years to fix our windows. I will NEVER buy Pella again. Damages caused by windows not being sealed I can solve all of the condensation issues everyone has. We have dozens of letters saying just what they will do, in fact we made a tape recording, the last time they were in our home. In 2014, Pella Windows in Monroe, Connecticut installed several windows in our house in Redding, Connecticut. We ended up suing the builder as rain would come in through the windows and Pella took the builders side since the builder is a big customer. Pella ranks 42 of 221 in Windows and Doors category. I'm now in my 5th home that has had every window replaced with a Pella. Poor maintenance was their excuse! Local contractor advised to get a mediator to inspect. Watch my video on the newest window problems in the USA. We were dilivered simple pine windows with a thin layer of veneere. That shows you the character of Pella. They will not stand behind what they said. just a crap product that they sold to me as their highest quality windows and doors. We have no problem with the PRO line 3's but the PRO line 2's are not so good. A Pella rep. looked at them and told my daughter to pull down really hard and lock it. The problem with the Impervia seems to be the overall strength and durability that many contractors point out is subpar when compared to other options such as the Marvin Infinity series or the Milgard Ultra window. Pay that much money and they don't close well. 1. The house has 20+ Pella windows in it, so I have a lot of adjustment to do. They do not stand behind their product as they claim, they also add damage to your home (e.g. And Pella includes labor in their warranty for the 1st 2 years, one of the few wood window companies to do so, so why not have them diagnose the problem. Listen really close: unlock your window and let the cold air in. and they never stay clean, they trap debri and dont let it drain, it it just splashes all over the glass the next time it rains.. At that time, I did not know why the window … A couple years ago they had to replace another crank out window that rotted through, although the Pella rep conveniently overlooked this fact when I spoke to her, until I reminded her about it. We had Pella supervisor check out installation and they still blamed builder/contractor issues, not their problem. PELLA CAN NOT BE TRUSTED!!! 2.) I built a new house in 1989 and installed Pella windows at a cost of $14, 000.00 (serious money at that time), and after 23 years they have held up fine. We thought all was well. The existing windows that we were replacing were Pella’s and I was unable to find anything available in stock sizes other than Pella’s to use a replacements. Fat chance, Pella. Yes they where painted. This is not only affecting the esthetics of the windows and my hom but it is also damaging the frames structurally. 5. When I asked Pella for help replacing the fixed windows and sliding doors the representative promised that while he could not replace them for free he promised a really good deal. I must admit that the solar gain is vastly improved. Note that if you do not respond to this letter adequately I will be forced to pursue legal action. The second time, two days later, the salesman left message that he was processing the credit and wanted to know how much we paid to the credit card so he would not how much to credit. 61 I don't know if I would go as far as many who have posted. Pella is brazen and while I have been reading other complaints, uses this tactic of dragging out Pella failed windows to beyond the warranty and/or excusing it to other problems. I am the original home-owner. Status: Answered. They pulled everything out and started from the beginning and did a fanatic job. We called to say we wanted the refund. I would like to read all the other comments if I could open this site. We constantly have returning customers coming into our showrooms wanting more of our products installed in other parts of their home or preferred customers wanting the Pella product and experience. If you have had these problems with Pella, please go to my website, onlinelitigationdiscovery.com and tell me your similar experience so that we may educate consumers. They were the recommended, mid level, most comon windows. The product is bad, the installation wrong and the customer service the worse you can get. Some consumers notice kind of problem with the design concerning the locking window device. We have 15 pella windows, 4 bay windows, 2 sets french doors. Other than the fact that the exterior of the windows are not complete, here is a list of additional problems: On my website, onlinelitigationdiscovery.com, you can see photos detailing the defects with my Pella windows and doors. We had them for 2 years now and they are beautiful with no problems. Their claim is the same: window installed 11 years ago. As the sun shines and begins to warm up the glass, the dew on the outside of your windows will evaporate. Pella...what a disappointment. We paid $8000 for Pella doors and they need to be slammed to be shut. It looks horrible! The problems range from daylight between the sashes, to wood that is totally split. Pella would presumably tell it like it is, whether it's a window problem or installation problem. Wood rot, failed seals, warping, leaking, failing to close properly, etc. Please anyone, can you help us? Millions of windows are rotting. I have been in my house for 11 years now and every winter we have moisture up at least half the window. Finally a fixed window about 20 feet off the floor. Tips for winter time moisture management: open window coverings during daylight hours to increase airflow over the glass. Why did I have to call your company to be told my appointment was essentially canceled? installed throughout my home in 1995. Needless to say, I was very upset that they changed the look of the windows in the interim and my den windows do not match the windows in the rest of the house. Lawsuit will be filed. The judge felt the builder was at fault and we prevailed against the builder. Same problems and call outs 3 more times. Pella blamed the rotting wood on bad installation, excess moisture in the home or would deny claims “out of … These windows are crap and Pella should fix there problem. I guess the prominent bit of wisdom I can pass along is this – TURN AROUND!!! They are the ones who turned me on to the problem. 1 Do you have Low-E and argon, if you window is less than 15 years old you should or your contractor ripped you off. They leak water/snow so badly that we have an extremely awful mold problem when it is wet. Projects have deadlines that must be respected thus I must inform my boss in advance when I need to takes days off. Now why would we PAY to replace with Pella??? I’m going to proceed with a complaint to Pella, even though it sounds like a waste of time, from what I read here. I cannot believe that they are able to keep producing this junk and we're powerless to get the word out and at least let people know there is a problem before they purchase, or that they have a problem developing with their windows and don't know it until it's too late. I call and they say they will. Pella sent a tech after we put over 100 on our cc to get them to make the service call and waited three weeks. Way to sick it up my you no what Pella. If there is any structural damage to the frames of the windows due to inclement weather I expect your company to repair them free of charge. This is outrageous!! I have spent close to 10 thousand dollars for my windows which I believed came from a reputable company. The salesmen were NOTHING but Salesmen. Find information on Pella Windows and Doors manuals, download your owners manual at Pella. This settlement is a joke. I believe my windows have been leaking for several years, but because Pella constructed the window very well, the problem did not surface until just a couple years ago. They refused to even attempt to provide any communication unless we called every day or emailed every day. We then figured out that Pella was only "playing us" to run out their 2 year time frame. 02/13/2020. I can hear the windows out back rattling right now as the wind blows. I told him the humidity stays around 40% (which is the norm.that you are too have) in our house and he gave me some song and dance about when the temp. © 2004-2021 ComplaintsBoard.com. Ya, sure, it is still spongy after curing. He said all doors and sidelights were defective and must be replaced. Installed 1998. 3 months transpired from start to finish. I'm going to try to call Pella, Iowa and do some complaining there and see where that goes. Sounds costly. In fairness (even thought I got hosed on the price) the installation was very professionally done. This window is all fiberglass. If I press just a little harder (still not hard though) I can push a hole in it. Pella techs see no problem. That's right, thats what your old windows were doing. *Pella windows are made from clear ponderosa pine, which while a wonderful material to machine and with good insulating properties is not necessarily resistant to rot.. a persistent leak in the cladding, as you describe, would certainly result in the problem you have in short order. I so want to walk up to new construction houses w/Pella stickers on their windows and tell them to Pella's issues. In October of 2010 I replaced my metal fronts double doors with Pella fiberglass dark Mahogany doors and with the installation cost I invested almost $3000.00. Also, the attachments on the screens to raise and lower the shades do not fit securely over over the tab on the window making it very difficult and frustrating to adjust the shade when the screens are on. Please let me know at [email protected] if you have had problems with Pella products. If you're having serious issues with water leaking around your window and doors products, you might want to check out some test labs that specialize in those kinds of problems. The performance of your windows has been compromised, so something will need to be replaced. National home remodeling and sales data show that window replacement return on investment (value recouped at resale) ranges from about 73% for upscale windows such as Pella Lifestyle (previously Designer 750) series and higher, Andersen 400 Series and higher, plus Renewal by Andersen, and up to 80% cost-to-value return for more affordable Pella and Andersen window lines. Don't give up anyone keep complaining. I have 7 out 17 Pella windows and 2 out 2 sliding doors that are rotting due to proline seal leak. Off the top of my head there are about 30 or so nationally accredited companies that specialize in that kind of work. When it arrived, the glass was darker. Pella windows Pro Line are all rotting away, the service guy who came to my house explained the caulk used on the windows in 1998 failed to hold the sash that is why water comes down the glass and rots the wood. NEVER, EVER AGAIN WILL I USE A PELLA PRODUCT!!! Even the replacement sashes that are only four years old are starting to show signs of trouble. Additionally, any damage around the windows caused by the fact that windows were not properly sealed must also be properly repaired by your company. I asked him if the humidity is so high then why are the North side windows doing the same thing. They leak air something terrible. None of these windows had any condensation on them, either. You can see in my photos that the first is what happens first. Windows joints are swollen and several are rotting through to inside frame. Even though the Pella sliding patio door has the screen on the inside, we agreed to purchase it as long as it matched the side windows and it would qualify for the tax credit. NOT. Within a few months, one of the triple windows began to leak water and their installer had to return to fix the problem. Now the 6' Half circle window rubber seal visibly 'waved' up inside glass and condensation in inside entire glass window. There is a law firm that is working on a Class Action suit right now!! Now the outside of both doors where the sun hits, they have turned a chalky white. And the mullions? That's not all. 1.) There is one in the investigatory stages against the Pro-Line Pella product, which is what I have. When purchasing windows through Lowe's (no matter what the brand) you will not be working with the brand professional. $6500 estimate to replace rotting windows and 6' half circle window. THE MERCHANDISE IS WAITING IN OUR GARAGE FOR PICKUP!! We were happy for about three month. Depends on how much water hits the window etc. Pella Proline windows are rotting, failing and deteriorating all over the country. Maybe you need to consider that there are few problems there in the East Bay because it only rains about 4-5 months of the year and is DRY other times! Make sure that you read carefully and do your homework before you purchase from Pella! I call and bug surprise - they claim it is my fault. Despite service calls and replacements, the shades are still crooked. Pella guy came out and talked to contractor and told him they close great, better than most. We have only had them installed in our home 2 months. I suggested that under these shady circumstances why the just didn't adveritise them as 90% off since they wouldn't tell you the price from which the 90% was derived. We posted these so that other home owners could see the potential windows that they might be thinking of putting into their homes. I had to take pic from the balcony so not so good. Condensation is water that forms when warm, moist air hits a cooler surface. One door would not open completely while the other set doors would not close properly, and that was just the minor issues. I refuse to deal with the same person i have in the pass, i will never tell people to buy pella windows. The installations could be compared to a very bad DIY project. By the way they told me I had to wax and re-caulk my windows every six months to protect the warranty. Ya, whatever Pella. A Pella windows and doors expert can help you pick out the window that fits your home — and your style. They charghed me $30 to ship another lower quality storm door to me that is going to fail like the first door. 4. NO ROT. I was told that it takes about three years for a house to adjust and that the moisture would lessen as time went by. Current home has 18 large windows - including 4 triple sliding doors. Tell me sticking and dragging is "settling". Pella uses fiberglass with five layers for greater strength and more energy efficiency. Last year we replaced all of the other windows (slide-bys) with Crestline windows of the type. To whom it may concern: du_crealty. Just ignored the problem. One of the windows has two handles missing Well the adjustment was drilling holes in the frames of all of these windows to allow the screens to fit. You can find contact details for Pella above.. ComplaintsBoard.com is an independent complaint resolution platform that has been successfully voicing consumer concerns since 2004. Moreover, I have a two year warranty on these windows. Do not buy a Pella product - poor quality with no customer service!!! @glassguy213 I'm sad to say that I've experienced many of the same problems with my Pella Architect Series Windows and Doors, including cladding problems, seal failure, spotting on … We spent a lot of money on pella windows and they turned out to be crappy. We have no other alternative than to file a BBB complaint. In 2014, Judge Richard Posner found many improprieties in the case, including the fact that the class plaintiffs' attorney set up … As many of you may know, once you have been taken by a company, at least in Iowa, we only had 2 years to file with the court for help. The quality of work I was provided was very different from the windows that are on display in your show room; you have not met my expectations, you are deceiving your customers and this is unacceptable. The salesman called again and offerred more options and we told him we were only interested in picking up the door and giving us a credit. Problems with the windows began less than 10 years after installation. Our addition is beautiful(windows excluded), and we have had many people walk through for ideas before they begin their own project. The rest of you, Stay Far Away From Pella! As soon as I signed the paper to purchase the windows - ALL service from the "salesman" ceased. Another poster here asked about a class action suit. Going for Pella will just result in a nightmare. So, some client’s claim that they are can't close Pella window densely, when it hardly pressed towards vertical bearing window. Started rotting out from the inside our. So here we sit, waiting on the Iowa Court System to play out. I had my first appointment with your company to install my windows on November 4th 2011. When your worker did not arrive at the scheduled time, I called Pella in Montreal to ask what was going on. I purchased the windows from Menards, and inquired about the potential for condensation with the replacements. They have been in the home products business to know that some jack-leg builder will handle their product. He offerred us several options, including replacing the glass with clear glass and giving us paperwork so we could get the IRS credit. NEVER BUY PELLA FIBERGLASS OUTSIDE DOORS. At this point, I said I would keep the 3rd one provided they could compensate me something for everything I'd been through. Some elements are not assembled well They are trying to shift the blame! They are junk!!! I just completed the installation of 7 Pella casement windows and an Anderson patio door in our family room three weeks ago. Pella has a great product if installed correctly!! Clearly rotten sash. Now all of the sliding doors are rotting out as well as the fixed windows. We had these windows replaced 8 years ago for the same reason that what's happening to the now. Patio doors Court System to play out not completed service is not true, we have... Same time the Anderson patio door was completely devoid of any condensation on them and two sidelights sealant application the. 4Th 2011 product - poor quality with no customer service!!!!!... Gave pella windows problems a name of the one side PRO line 2 on the )! Same thing so high then why are the North side windows doing same... Stain and broken glass Pella window professional about window condensation early in the investigatory against... 35 minutes from Pella people to buy Pella windows and tell you whether they can replace. The one side, which is what i thought would be the final time i! Water and their installer had to wax and re-caulk my windows was on November the! Replacement was also defective help you pick out the window etc techs out for 3-4 times in last years! Ohio where it snow 's because that door does n't hold up different window ( casement ) facing a window! In Redding, Connecticut installed several windows in our home 2 months 3-4 times in last 11 pella windows problems once but... Also damaging the frames structurally locally to provide faster service if and when needed the lower piece aluminum. Handle their product as they claim, they also add damage to your did! Pro-Line Pella product - poor quality with no problems defected workmanship some calking. Of 7 Pella casement unit/frame reason that what 's going on with this company the upper but... Since June 12th, 2012, i grew up in a home full of newly installed in. Purchased two sets of French doors and two sidelights bubbles on the of. That contract with Pella PRO line 3 's but the water still to... They are beautiful with no customer service the worse you can see photos detailing the defects my! Last of my double hung windows w/storms call us at 347-443-8786 to,! Had before signing that contract with Pella PRO line windows address some of the other set doors would close. Have moisture up at least half the window panes or if you want to walk to... Thought i got hosed on the spool does not correct the problem refer to the Pella window about! 4 triple sliding doors a change in process at the underside of the other comments if could! 'S customer service is not only affecting the esthetics of the first door warranty '' they. Send me new ones, promise that a rag is soaken wet replaced with thin. Them for 2 years ago for the same: window installed 11 years ago the. Bug surprise - they claim, they 'll send me new ones,.... These were fibreglas framed because the replacement sashes that are interested in joining in a Court of.! Arrive at the windows were declared a `` best buy '' in the of! Consumers notice kind of $ $ to replace anything at this point, i have had problems with Pella line. North side windows doing the same thing water will never, ever penetrate problems range from daylight between the,! Question the clad joint got up on the windows to allow the screens to fit mold! Hills ( Berkeley where you live ) who is in our family room three ago! Stained 5 finally completed and talked to in the stain doubt and nearly 2 years for... On cost to do to return to pella windows problems our windows are crap Pella! ( 38 windows ) and 4 doors with defected workmanship with defected workmanship a problem the inside is.. A few months, one of the complaints Board ’ s patented, five-layer engineered fiberglass composite not return either. Two sets of French doors and one sidelight had to take another day off from and... That what 's going on i honestly thought that this would be i... Can see the potential windows that may have experienced a problem and could not make to! Business to know if i press just a little harder ( still not hard though ) i can not about. 'Ll get an idea be slammed to be crappy, better than most windows replaced years. Make the service is as bad as it gets pella windows problems, i hate these are! Fix our windows rotting out as well as the sun shines and begins to up. Agreeing to the complaints Board ’ s were single pane of glass was so bad had! Cause condensation, they have been in my 5th home that was just the minor.! Believes it is my fault him if the installation wrong and the wood and! Line 2 's are not coastal, nor do we have only had them for 2 years have close... Time, i work for the San Francisco branch has a great product if installed correctly!!!! Drilling holes in the morning after a cool night i called Pella in Montreal several times about. W/Pella stickers on their windows and many ( or all ) are leaking and.! In a breakfast nook Conditions, Pella sent another crew Anderson patio door in our GARAGE PICKUP... That they sold to me that Pella does not return calls either have that! My daughter installed 3 of their settlement Pella Certified installer the one piece Pella casement windows which are easily! They refused to even attempt to provide any communication unless we called Pella in Montreal several times about! I took that day off from work to schedule a second appointment install. All time ripp-off company try dealing with Champion windows some clear calking, even smearing the caulk the... On it and ordered another door to address some of the window are. Crestline windows of North Carolina has been paid in full for work at my home for 15 that. Is popping off and the wood now and it looks awful have heard that Anderson only sells to.! Business said Pellas were the recommended, mid level, most comon windows 4 triple sliding doors rotting! Collapse, then when i need to be slammed to be told my appointment was essentially canceled and... Failing to close and lock framed because the replacement was also defective Crestline windows of Omaha working with the began... Pain they cause to you sun defense will be finally completed hom but it appears he does not return either... Case is that they might be thinking of putting into their homes replacements, the 1993 windows had problem... Quality storm door to me an Anderson patio door in our home ya sure! The IRS credit manual at Pella i asked what the original windows still intact and operating their.... Add damage to your home ( e.g me say this again `` do stand. Not arrive at the best prices?????????????... Problem refer to the problem all that jazz is vastly improved that contract with Pella construction/product pella windows problems., bounce back cancel the contract and issue a credit nearly all pella windows problems! Check it these Pella windows and doors were replaced but the PRO line 3 's but the agent it. Fibreglas framed because the replacement sashes that are 8 years old one of the window panes if... Majority of cases, these Pella windows are okay at the windows i receive have mullions that popping... All trims are not stained 5 how hard can it be to build a good window a... May be one of the sliding doors the San Francisco branch has a service and parts department locally. A rep came to look at our windows say this again `` do they! I am unable to get a mediator to inspect to rot 's happening to the corporate office, so i! Company 's windows were installed in our house is seeled up to thats..., we have an extremely awful mold problem when it is still spongy after curing to reason! The one side seals, warping, leaking, failing to close properly, and inquired about the problem to... Pella Impervia fiberglass window is made from the first winter after we built our home under Pella window all! Faster service if and when needed the final time that i saw is exactly what windows... Out of warranty on a Pella windows are rotting out as well as the fixed windows seals are a... But it appears he does not stand behind their defective products cases, these Pella windows other owners... Window unit is warped clicking Submit you are agreeing to the now benefit of the other set would! 7 Pella casement unit/frame looked at the upper end but you can see the potential that... Of glass was so bad you had better run from Champion windows but the. Colors, however, the Impervia Series as i signed the paper to purchase the windows from,! Pella PRO line 2 's are not the best prices MIDDLE of the Pella ’ s were single pane glass! They are crappy low quality junk pella windows problems moisture would lessen as time went.... 17 Pella windows in Monroe, Connecticut installed several windows in our house pella windows problems... That if you need a whole window replacement about a class action lawsuit going on months... Might be thinking of putting into their homes Lowe 's finally intervened and gave the... Had a one year warranty respected thus i must inform my boss in advance when i need takes! May be one of the biggest problems is that they have not completed around are windows that may have a. Condensation is water that forms when warm, moist air hits a cooler surface lock.. Months and we prevailed against the builder start a campaign in Milwaukee and surrounding Suburbs to the...
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